1
00:00:00,270 --> 00:00:00,670
Go.

2
00:00:05,050 --> 00:00:08,000
I'm really liking these analogies of the pie and the and the hub.

3
00:00:08,020 --> 00:00:09,460
So let me try and break this down.

4
00:00:09,460 --> 00:00:14,650
If you've if you've got 2.4 gigahertz, you've got five gigahertz and then maybe six gigahertz.

5
00:00:14,650 --> 00:00:17,290
So let's just use 2.4 and five at the moment.

6
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:23,050
Is it correct to say that like 2.4, we have a certain number of hubs because each channel and then

7
00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:25,990
in five, we've got a certain number of hubs each channel.

8
00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,800
But if you do bonding, it's like joining multiple hubs together.

9
00:00:29,830 --> 00:00:35,080
So you've got like more possible collisions if guys are overlapping on those channels.

10
00:00:35,290 --> 00:00:35,860
Right.

11
00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:38,920
Except that when you channel bond, that becomes one hub.

12
00:00:39,220 --> 00:00:39,490
Yeah.

13
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,880
And then if you we just have less channels to use.

14
00:00:43,910 --> 00:00:44,290
Right.

15
00:00:44,290 --> 00:00:50,290
So if you've got, say, a campus environment and a large building or actually no, it's better to use

16
00:00:50,290 --> 00:00:51,760
as like an apartment complex.

17
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,140
There's a lot of users there.

18
00:00:53,140 --> 00:00:53,530
Right.

19
00:00:53,530 --> 00:00:56,770
And typically in an apartment complex, wi fi is terrible.

20
00:00:56,770 --> 00:01:01,960
And that's because everybody is stepping on each other's frequency on the same channels.

21
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,760
There's only so many channels you could use that you have to reuse those channels.

22
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,590
And so the more often you have to reuse that channels, the more you'll have contention.

23
00:01:11,590 --> 00:01:17,080
Because now I'm on Channel 36, but so are, you know, the ten neighbours that are around me.

24
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,060
I could all hear their networks.

25
00:01:19,060 --> 00:01:23,740
And so when we're all trying to watch Netflix at the same time on the same channel.

26
00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:26,600
Everyone's got to communicate one at a time.

27
00:01:26,780 --> 00:01:29,630
You got to send those those frames one at a time.

28
00:01:29,630 --> 00:01:36,590
And so the more you have on a single channel, the less the smaller slice you have of that pie.

29
00:01:36,590 --> 00:01:43,100
And that's what wi fi six is trying to solve with with the efficiency of how those channels are used.

30
00:01:43,660 --> 00:01:43,830
Yes.

31
00:01:43,850 --> 00:01:48,470
It's like breaking the channel up into smaller hubs, if you like, and putting people on smaller little

32
00:01:48,470 --> 00:01:49,340
collision domains.

33
00:01:49,340 --> 00:01:49,850
Right.

34
00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:50,150
Yeah.

35
00:01:50,150 --> 00:01:51,860
Because the transmissions are so tiny.

36
00:01:51,860 --> 00:01:57,320
We're not we're not usually transmitting large amounts, a large packet size, a larger payload size.

37
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:58,310
It's usually very tiny.

38
00:01:58,310 --> 00:02:02,780
It's like little get requests right to a website and that's all you really all you really need.

39
00:02:02,780 --> 00:02:08,509
It's not like you're requesting a payload larger than 2000 bytes usually.

40
00:02:08,509 --> 00:02:10,070
So it's usually small.

41
00:02:10,070 --> 00:02:13,970
And that's why they wanted to split those channels into smaller sub channels.

42
00:02:15,150 --> 00:02:16,340
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

43
00:02:16,350 --> 00:02:20,940
I mean, the data we're sending is, say, voice over IP or small data sizes.

44
00:02:20,940 --> 00:02:25,980
So it makes sense to rather than have a big channel, break it into smaller channels because everyone's

45
00:02:25,980 --> 00:02:27,900
sending smaller packets anyway.

46
00:02:28,020 --> 00:02:33,810
So the analogy of like stacking stuff within a truck or a big, big van or something.

47
00:02:33,810 --> 00:02:34,890
Yeah, yeah.

48
00:02:34,890 --> 00:02:44,820
And one of the things with wi fi six is the scheduling piece where with off DMA, when you have everyone

49
00:02:44,820 --> 00:02:48,210
transmitting at the same time, that is a single transmit opportunity.

50
00:02:48,210 --> 00:02:52,230
So they're all transmit the they all can tend to.

51
00:02:52,930 --> 00:02:56,650
To transmit, and that's a transmit opportunity and they all send their data.

52
00:02:56,650 --> 00:03:01,960
So that's like the analogy of the truck being like you send that truck off and it's got all that data

53
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,710
on there and then the AP receives it and it's the same way coming back.

54
00:03:06,310 --> 00:03:09,820
So, I mean, I wanted to ask you about we were talking about the apartment complex.

55
00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:12,760
There's two things here I wanted to ask you about this coloring thing.

56
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,980
So is that how does that in WiFi six, can you explain what that is firstly and how does it help?

57
00:03:17,980 --> 00:03:18,340
Yeah.

58
00:03:18,340 --> 00:03:24,790
So there's this concept of BCIS color and that BCIS is basic service set and a basic service set is

59
00:03:24,790 --> 00:03:33,670
just another name for like your your CID, your CID on 2.4 gigahertz.

60
00:03:33,670 --> 00:03:35,290
That is a basic service set.

61
00:03:35,290 --> 00:03:40,720
It is a separate basic service set if you're broadcasting that same SSID on five gigahertz.

62
00:03:41,050 --> 00:03:48,940
And so if you just take 2.4 gigahertz as an example, if somebody else is transmitting on channel one,

63
00:03:48,940 --> 00:03:53,170
the same channel you're transmitting with WiFi six, you'd be assigned a color.

64
00:03:53,170 --> 00:03:57,400
And technically there is no color like blue.

65
00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:58,480
It's really just a number.

66
00:03:58,480 --> 00:03:59,830
I don't know why they call it color.

67
00:03:59,830 --> 00:04:03,550
It's it's it's numbers from one through 63.

68
00:04:03,670 --> 00:04:07,480
And so you could be assigned color ID number one.

69
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,650
And your neighbor also on channel one can be ID number ten, for example.

70
00:04:11,650 --> 00:04:20,320
So if your device was transmitting and it heard a transmission on Channel one in in the in the actual

71
00:04:20,350 --> 00:04:24,160
if you look at the frame and one of the fields, it'll say the bsp's color.

72
00:04:24,190 --> 00:04:27,160
Your device will say, K, what color is that?

73
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,700
That is not my best color, so I don't care.

74
00:04:31,180 --> 00:04:37,720
So it'll just let it send the data and part of that technology.

75
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:45,640
Is that with bzr coloring, it'll help tell devices, hey, turn down your transmit power because you're

76
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:52,690
broadcasting way too high that it's sending the transmission like way over there to another beast that's

77
00:04:52,690 --> 00:04:53,800
also in the same channel.

78
00:04:54,340 --> 00:04:55,930
That's the best way I could put it right now.

79
00:04:56,470 --> 00:05:02,260
And the base color is really just meant to say, that's not my business, so I'm going to transmit anyways,

80
00:05:02,260 --> 00:05:08,740
but at a lower transmit power so I don't transmit on top of their transmission and ruin their signal.

81
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:16,180
So I mean, this colouring thing works because let's say you're talking next door to me and I'm talking

82
00:05:16,180 --> 00:05:19,750
if I see your colour in the past I would have had to back off.

83
00:05:19,750 --> 00:05:20,590
But now I don't.

84
00:05:20,590 --> 00:05:21,160
Is that right?

85
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:22,090
Yeah.

86
00:05:22,090 --> 00:05:28,600
It gives you a kind of a sensor and it's super technical and the documentation, but it allows you to

87
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:34,600
just transmit without waiting it just just transmit your data but at a lower transmit power.

88
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:40,960
So that way you don't cause a collision with your with the other RBS and a different colour.

89
00:05:41,950 --> 00:05:44,530
But there still is a possibility of collisions.

90
00:05:44,530 --> 00:05:48,190
The thing with RBS colouring is I have not ever seen that.

91
00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:50,300
And in action.

92
00:05:50,310 --> 00:05:56,490
So I'm very curious how that's going to play out in a high density environment like apartment complexes

93
00:05:56,490 --> 00:05:57,270
or dorms.

94
00:05:58,260 --> 00:05:59,430
You know, it's interesting that you say that.

95
00:05:59,430 --> 00:06:04,620
I mean, I think it's important that we preface this by saying there's so few devices that support WiFi

96
00:06:04,620 --> 00:06:09,960
six at the moment that a lot of what we're talking about is pretty standard standards only being ratified

97
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,760
at the end of 2019, is that right?

98
00:06:12,510 --> 00:06:15,150
It's supposed to be at the end of 2019.

99
00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:16,770
It might go into 2020.

100
00:06:17,550 --> 00:06:22,470
No one has said anything yet, but I'm pretty sure it'll be ratified soon.

101
00:06:22,890 --> 00:06:26,580
And have you seen this out in the wild, or was it more like in labs?

102
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:27,990
It's more in labs.

103
00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:33,140
I mean, I have two WiFi six access points here, but I have no WiFi six devices.

104
00:06:33,150 --> 00:06:37,620
I came this close to getting a Samsung S10, but so you tweet about that.

105
00:06:38,460 --> 00:06:41,220
It doesn't help at all because it's a single device, right?

106
00:06:41,220 --> 00:06:45,960
When I test this, it's going to look great to me because I'm going to get the best speeds.

107
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,640
I'm going to get high data rates.

108
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,750
I'm going to get I'm going to see what was advertised by the vendors.

109
00:06:51,750 --> 00:06:57,210
But it's a whole different beast when you have to when you bring in multiple devices, like hundreds

110
00:06:57,210 --> 00:07:02,910
of those, and have maybe a dorm setting and a and a apartment complex setting because that's where

111
00:07:03,330 --> 00:07:10,590
that's the environment that this the Wi-Fi six is catered to high density and making that more efficient.

112
00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:12,270
Yeah, you said high efficiency.

113
00:07:12,270 --> 00:07:15,600
So I mean, high efficiency isn't going to work very well if you have one device, right?

114
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:16,640
There's no efficiency there.

115
00:07:16,650 --> 00:07:19,260
I just have full access to that to that channel.

116
00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:20,940
So.

117
00:07:21,660 --> 00:07:27,630
Well, reading through some of the documentation about this, I believe there was a big change in Wi-Fi

118
00:07:27,630 --> 00:07:31,110
six versus Wi-Fi five to do with 2.4 versus five.

119
00:07:31,110 --> 00:07:31,740
Is that right?

120
00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:34,920
It's there's not like a big change.

121
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:41,460
It's just people are saying 2.4 gigahertz might make a comeback because of the efficiencies that will

122
00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:43,240
come, the 2.4 gigahertz.

123
00:07:43,260 --> 00:07:48,480
That might be the case, but we still have only three non-overlapping channels to work with.

124
00:07:48,930 --> 00:07:56,070
But sorry, what I was trying to get to is that in AC so five five, 2.4 gigahertz, was it supported

125
00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:57,210
or wasn't it supported?

126
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,360
2.4 wasn't part of WiFi five.

127
00:08:00,690 --> 00:08:00,990
Yeah.

128
00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:04,470
So, so in other words, they're bringing that back in WiFi six, is that correct.

129
00:08:04,470 --> 00:08:04,860
Yeah.

130
00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:12,690
So in Wi-Fi six, it's we're going back to part of this backwards compatibility by, by supporting 2.4

131
00:08:12,690 --> 00:08:18,810
gigahertz and five gigahertz, I think maybe down the road, six gigahertz might be added to that.

132
00:08:18,810 --> 00:08:23,400
But we'll probably see a different, different wireless standard by then.

133
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:30,300
But with 2.4 gigahertz, we'll see all these same technologies that we've been talking about your your

134
00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:35,669
air time efficiency basis coloring of ADMA all apply to 2.4 gigahertz as well.

135
00:08:36,030 --> 00:08:37,640
But why did they bring back 2.4?

136
00:08:37,650 --> 00:08:41,770
Is it because of the distance it can go further, that kind of thing or why?

137
00:08:41,820 --> 00:08:42,860
What are your thoughts on that?

138
00:08:42,870 --> 00:08:46,680
I think I think it's more about just having the available frequency, right.

139
00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:50,100
Like why ditch 2.4 when it's still there?

140
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:57,420
If we have been pushing a lot of devices to five gigahertz, but why not start using 2.4 gigahertz again,

141
00:08:57,420 --> 00:09:02,040
if we can still add that efficiency there to 2.4 gigahertz?

142
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:07,890
Most devices are dual band anyways, dual band meaning they support 2.4 and five gigahertz.

143
00:09:07,890 --> 00:09:13,140
So it's their might as well use it right instead of just avoiding it altogether.

144
00:09:13,830 --> 00:09:14,370
That's a good point.

145
00:09:14,370 --> 00:09:19,500
So I mean, just to summarize for everyone's benefit, big change in well, I mean, I think it's a

146
00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:26,070
big change is that in wi fi six versus the wi fi five, they've now are supporting 2.12 gigahertz channels.

147
00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:28,110
Yep, yep, yep, yep.

148
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,970
One of the things I saw here is they talk about better latency or lower latency.

149
00:09:32,970 --> 00:09:36,600
Can you expand on like what does that mean or how does it work?

150
00:09:36,870 --> 00:09:39,900
Yeah, I think the latency is is.

151
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:47,620
Trying to improve latency in a higher density situation because of so many devices trying to gain access

152
00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:54,520
to to wireless, we tend to see wireless slow down and say like a conference type situation where there's

153
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,680
so many people there all trying to get on wi fi.

154
00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:57,430
It's slow.

155
00:09:57,460 --> 00:10:00,970
Things aren't loading very, very quickly because of that latency.

156
00:10:00,970 --> 00:10:05,440
The latency increases as latency increases, your throughput decreases.

157
00:10:05,650 --> 00:10:14,260
And so with the efficiencies that WiFi six is bringing in with the the ODM, that's I think going to

158
00:10:14,260 --> 00:10:21,490
lower the latency because of the multiple access that the AMA brings and having multiple devices either

159
00:10:21,490 --> 00:10:29,620
transmit or receive simultaneously that way, like what we've talked about before, you're not waiting

160
00:10:29,620 --> 00:10:35,230
in line to transmit, you're just able to transmit along with others on just different sub channels.

161
00:10:35,230 --> 00:10:39,430
And I think that's what what's going to really improve the latency is because of that.

162
00:10:41,020 --> 00:10:46,300
And I mean, another caveat to all of the stuff that I'll be talking about is, I mean, we are talking

163
00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:50,170
about the joke about you trying to get or considering getting a Samsung phone.

164
00:10:50,350 --> 00:10:57,430
Is this all these cool features only applied to Wi-Fi six devices, but it's not like everyone is going

165
00:10:57,430 --> 00:11:00,910
to replace all their wi fi five devices like that tomorrow, are they?

166
00:11:01,530 --> 00:11:03,220
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.

167
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:09,600
It's going to take a long time to have this transition from WiFi five to WiFi six.

168
00:11:09,630 --> 00:11:11,850
I mean, we've seen this in the previous protocols.

169
00:11:12,030 --> 00:11:13,200
How long did it take to go?

170
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,500
From 8 to 11 and to eight or to 11?

171
00:11:15,510 --> 00:11:22,200
AC But I think if we rely on some of these big vendors, you've got really big vendors now like Samsung

172
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,690
and Apple are the biggest to Samsung being the first to push for this.

173
00:11:27,690 --> 00:11:33,840
I think we may see that transition happen faster as as people are now upgrading at faster cycles for

174
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,240
their for their mobile devices, maybe laptops or a different story because those are a much bigger

175
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,110
investment.

176
00:11:40,110 --> 00:11:47,220
But none of these really are aren't going to be taken advantage of until we have all wi fi six devices

177
00:11:47,220 --> 00:11:48,590
using the wireless network.

178
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:56,430
But that being said, it may be possible to take advantage of that if, say, an access point has a

179
00:11:56,430 --> 00:11:59,430
radio dedicated to just wi fi six.

180
00:12:00,410 --> 00:12:04,220
Yeah, because I wanted to talk about that a bit is, you know, in the gang back, I mean, I'm showing

181
00:12:04,220 --> 00:12:04,930
my age here.

182
00:12:04,970 --> 00:12:09,710
I remember there was this thing with 802. 11 B and how it was a major problem.

183
00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:13,400
It would slow the entire access point down and use that example of the Apple TV.

184
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:20,540
So I'm assuming that you could have these older devices that slow everyone down or is it is your your

185
00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:23,330
example of using a different radio going to try and solve that?

186
00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:30,890
That's that's an idea that's been floated around is how to make sure your Wi-Fi six devices actually

187
00:12:30,890 --> 00:12:36,890
take advantage of WiFi six is by putting them on a radio that wi fi five and below cannot use.

188
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,640
But if most vendors are probably just going to use the same radio.

189
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:47,600
So that's, that's where the analogy of you driving a Ferrari behind a slow car, that's what's going

190
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:55,040
to happen for this transition period because the app has to shift from wi fi, 6 to 10, wi fi five

191
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,090
or even below, right.

192
00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:58,520
As a supports older protocols.

193
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,190
And we're going to see that that changed for a couple of years because it's not going to it's going

194
00:13:04,190 --> 00:13:06,590
to be a while before everything is wi fi six.

195
00:13:07,130 --> 00:13:11,870
So do you suspect that like if people have still got like, I mean, they're going to have like wi fi

196
00:13:11,870 --> 00:13:18,440
five devices and perhaps wi fi four devices that's going to inhibit sort of this delivery of all the

197
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,930
cool speed and whatever of wi fi six.

198
00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:21,920
Yep, exactly.

199
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:28,940
Because if an access point supports all of those protocols, right, when it shifts from wi fi six to

200
00:13:28,940 --> 00:13:33,310
wi fi five or wi fi four, it's not using ODM anymore.

201
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:37,310
Oh, if the amazing like the biggest improvement to to wireless, it's not going to use that.

202
00:13:37,310 --> 00:13:43,910
It's going to use regular ODM and that's just one device taking up a whole channel to transmit whatever

203
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:45,470
packet size that's trying to send.

204
00:13:45,620 --> 00:13:51,770
And so that I think is where people might initially say, well, I don't see a big improvement in wi

205
00:13:51,770 --> 00:13:56,810
fi six, and that's because you have to have wi fi six devices, you mean.

206
00:13:56,810 --> 00:13:59,030
So in your experience, I mean, you've been doing this for a long time.

207
00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:00,590
How long did it take to go?

208
00:14:00,590 --> 00:14:01,520
Because you said it took a long time.

209
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,640
But like in how many years do you reckon it would take based on your experience?

210
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,270
I mean, this is obviously no one can hold you to this, but just based on like your experience, how

211
00:14:08,270 --> 00:14:10,700
long did it go from end to wi fi for?

212
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:11,810
To wi fi five.

213
00:14:11,810 --> 00:14:14,780
And how long do you think it's going to go to take to go to Wi-Fi?

214
00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:15,470
Six, sorry.

215
00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:18,770
I think it took at least three years to start seeing.

216
00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:22,070
I mean, I still see eight or to 11 devices on my networks.

217
00:14:22,070 --> 00:14:24,050
So it's taken a long time.

218
00:14:24,050 --> 00:14:28,790
And and like at home, we can change that out pretty quickly.

219
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:36,080
But if at the office, like wherever you work your your business or the business you work at, you also

220
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:37,970
got to think about budget cycles, right?

221
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:43,700
So people probably won't be upgrading their access points that quickly if they just upgraded to 11.

222
00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:50,840
AC And so you may have a wi fi six device, but the venue you're at or the business you're at just hasn't

223
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,180
even upgraded their apps to wi fi six yet.

224
00:14:53,660 --> 00:14:58,040
And so we're going to see that same kind of transition everywhere is.

225
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:05,230
This upgrade cycle and this transition to Wi-Fi six is going to take maybe at least three years plus,

226
00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:06,640
maybe five years.

227
00:15:07,090 --> 00:15:09,440
So what are you recommending to your customers?

228
00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:12,340
I mean, obviously, if it's new stuff, don't don't say.

229
00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:16,880
But like, what would you say if someone's considering buying wi fi today?

230
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,390
I mean, Cisco have just released their wi fi six products.

231
00:15:19,390 --> 00:15:23,080
I mean, it's the time to get wi fi six now, is that right?

232
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:23,680
It is, yeah.

233
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,670
I mean, it's the cost difference between wi fi, six AP and a wi fi.

234
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:33,400
Five AP is not even there's it's probably a better savings to go with wi fi six.

235
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,410
But let's say someone just upgraded to wi fi five apps.

236
00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:45,070
I would say if you have the money go and upgraded to wi fi six when there's more devices or I say hold

237
00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:47,530
off, wait for more devices, see what happens.

238
00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:53,200
Or if you're at a point where you have to buy access points and you don't upgrade your access points

239
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,700
for another seven, five, seven years, I'd say just upgrade to wi fi six now.

240
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,920
I like that advice because I think it's very practical what you said that people think about.

241
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:04,410
Okay.

242
00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:11,060
Like today when we were recording this in May 2019, the only client that I mean, I think you mentioned

243
00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:14,390
you found another client, but the only client that I could find was a Samsung phone.

244
00:16:15,230 --> 00:16:15,800
That's correct.

245
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,850
There's only if you want to get something off the shelf.

246
00:16:18,860 --> 00:16:21,650
Samsung S10 is the only Wi-Fi six.

247
00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:32,210
I had to go find an internal card from eBay and I have to open my laptop, my, my, my windows laptop

248
00:16:32,210 --> 00:16:33,710
and screw that card in there.

249
00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:36,410
And hopefully I have drivers that work.

250
00:16:36,740 --> 00:16:37,230
Hopefully.

251
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:38,780
Yes.

252
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:45,080
I mean, it's it makes sense to upgrade access points today if you're at that point, because if you

253
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,880
have a long upgrade cycle, like let's say if you're if you have if you have to upgrade today, but

254
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,910
you're going to upgrade in three years from now, I'd say just wait.

255
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:59,840
If you can wait to upgrade to Wi-Fi six, just wait to see what happens as devices roll out.

256
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:05,780
But if you're upgrading today and your upgrade cycle is five, seven years, just upgrade to WiFi six.

257
00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:10,790
So that because by that time you'll have wi fi six devices coming onto your network.

258
00:17:11,329 --> 00:17:11,420
Yeah.

259
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:16,550
So I mean, so just to summarize the big, you'll only start seeing the benefits of wi fi six once you

260
00:17:16,550 --> 00:17:21,589
have clients and once the older clients are phased out because the older clients will be slowing down.

261
00:17:21,589 --> 00:17:26,540
Like your analogy of the Ferrari stuck behind a slow car, the old clients are slowing the new clients

262
00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:27,440
down anyway.

263
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:31,060
That's brilliant, Raul.

264
00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:33,500
So, I mean, I've been keeping you for an hour.

265
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:39,620
So do you have any other recommendations or, you know, information about WiFi six?

266
00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:43,520
Because I've asked you a bunch of stuff, but is anything that I've missed that you want to highlight?

267
00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:51,100
There's there's one thing that we didn't even talk about because it's really technical is the modulation,

268
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:51,710
right?

269
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:52,280
Yeah.

270
00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:58,340
Most people don't know what modulation is used with wi fi, but that also determines the modulation

271
00:17:58,340 --> 00:18:04,280
determines your your data rate, your, your how fast your, your, your throughputs are going to be.

272
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:13,970
And in wifi six they increase that to what's called 1024 quam cu am and realistically that's been very

273
00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:18,920
difficult to achieve a high modulation because the high modulation gives you the higher data rate,

274
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:25,040
the higher throughput, but that's like taking a bow and arrow and trying to hit a bull's eye from across

275
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:25,850
the football field.

276
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:26,020
Right.

277
00:18:26,030 --> 00:18:28,340
It's got to be that accurate.

278
00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:34,040
And you've got to have a clean, wireless environment where there's not a lot of noise, not a lot of

279
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:35,000
interference.

280
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:41,900
And that's where also a lot of the speed increase may come is from 1024 quam modulation.

281
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:50,540
And that's really just taking frequency and using the amplitude and the the phase and adjusting that

282
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:53,750
to send data at a higher modulation rate.

283
00:18:54,140 --> 00:18:56,240
So we should just to simplify this.

284
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:02,750
So basically when you talk about modulation rate, I can put more data in on the on the I would say

285
00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:04,610
on the wire, but that's not the right analogy.

286
00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:05,000
On the air.

287
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,930
Over the air, yeah.

288
00:19:06,350 --> 00:19:06,860
Yeah.

289
00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:13,880
So in a period of a second or I mean millisecond or whatever, I can put more data on because I can

290
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,650
modulate more data onto the air.

291
00:19:15,650 --> 00:19:17,930
And if in any given timeslot.

292
00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:18,530
Is that right?

293
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:19,340
That's right.

294
00:19:19,340 --> 00:19:26,870
And you also have to consider that from the transmitter side, it may be modulating it a 1024 Quam But

295
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:29,870
the receiver has to modulate that signal.

296
00:19:29,870 --> 00:19:36,800
So if that signal is barely readable by the client, it's not going to acknowledge that it received

297
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,910
it, which means the client will, the transmitter will have to resend that.

298
00:19:40,910 --> 00:19:43,190
And that's that's called a retry.

299
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:47,330
And that's typically when you have more retries, you have lower throughput.

300
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:51,470
Is there in theory if you is clean.

301
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:56,540
I don't want to make a bad joke about being clean, but, I mean, like, there's not a lot of noise.

302
00:19:56,590 --> 00:19:58,090
Not a lot of clients speaking.

303
00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:00,380
They could go up to this 1024.

304
00:20:00,380 --> 00:20:01,300
Kwame, is that right?

305
00:20:01,310 --> 00:20:03,440
Yeah, I think it should be.

306
00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:09,980
It may be fairly possible because again, we're taking a channel and subdividing it into smaller channels

307
00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:17,180
which having to tune to a smaller channel means your your signal to noise ratio is going to be a lot

308
00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:22,310
better because you're not tuning to a larger frequency or tuning to a various smaller frequency.

309
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:28,160
And so we may be possible it might be possible to to modulate and D modulate at 1024.

310
00:20:28,430 --> 00:20:33,290
But hopefully in a couple weeks I should be able to test that.

311
00:20:33,860 --> 00:20:34,400
Brilliant.

312
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:42,350
So I mean, just to summarize what that is, is basically more data can be sent every time cycle or

313
00:20:42,350 --> 00:20:43,250
whatever you want to call it.

314
00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:48,200
So modulate more data onto the air and it goes to 1024.

315
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,550
Quam Previously, what was it?

316
00:20:49,550 --> 00:20:50,990
256 Was it or something?

317
00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:51,140
Yeah.

318
00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:59,090
256 Quam So it's quite a big jump and again it requires a lot of like accuracy in hitting that modulation.

319
00:20:59,090 --> 00:21:04,130
So we'll see when, when more devices come out and people actually start testing it and sharing their

320
00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:04,610
tests.

321
00:21:04,610 --> 00:21:10,550
Whether or not we can actually hit that because it does require what's called a higher snr signal to

322
00:21:10,550 --> 00:21:11,510
noise ratio.

323
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:18,890
But in theory, if it's clean, this is where we get this thing about four times or whatever I think

324
00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:22,690
it was four times was quoted the speed of of wifi five.

325
00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:23,090
Yeah.

326
00:21:23,330 --> 00:21:23,660
Yeah.

327
00:21:23,660 --> 00:21:27,620
I think that's where they're getting that number from, from various aspects.

328
00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:27,830
Right.

329
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:35,540
Your, your eight by eight, your the of the may your your modulation scheme like they they've tested

330
00:21:35,540 --> 00:21:41,960
that in the lab and and said yeah we can get four times the better speed with this efficiency rule.

331
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:46,190
I've been hearing all this talk about Iot in Internet of Things.

332
00:21:46,190 --> 00:21:47,330
There's all these devices.

333
00:21:47,330 --> 00:21:50,690
You've got an Alexa in your home that's listening in on you.

334
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:51,860
What you're saying, oh, no, sorry.

335
00:21:51,860 --> 00:21:53,750
Helping you control your devices in your home.

336
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:56,550
You've got light bulbs that you know you can talk to.

337
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:02,360
So can you explain, you know, what is WiFi six got to do with Iot and why?

338
00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:03,110
You know, what is it?

339
00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:04,130
Why is it important?

340
00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:05,090
Yeah, why?

341
00:22:05,090 --> 00:22:13,190
Fi six introduces something called target wake time or w t and this is supposed to help devices with

342
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:14,930
improving their power requirements.

343
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:20,090
So there's going to be a lot of Iot devices that are battery powered, for example, or they don't really

344
00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:22,520
need to be talking on the wireless network often.

345
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,930
But when they do, they need to power up there, you know, use more electronics.

346
00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:31,100
And and basically they need to stay alive as long as possible on that on that battery.

347
00:22:31,250 --> 00:22:39,290
And so wi fi, anything before prior to wi fi six had a different kind of power saving mechanism.

348
00:22:39,290 --> 00:22:47,330
But with wi fi six, it's going to help reduce contention onto the wi fi medium and also reduce the

349
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:49,910
amount of time a client needs to be awake.

350
00:22:49,910 --> 00:22:55,400
So there's going to be a schedule that the access point tells all the clients saying, Hey, here's

351
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,060
a schedule to wake up and transmit and receive data.

352
00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:01,640
And that's pretty much all it is.

353
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,800
So when when the client wakes up, it can just transmit data and then go back to sleep only when it

354
00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:08,120
only wakes up when it needs to.

355
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:08,390
Right?

356
00:23:08,570 --> 00:23:13,400
Instead of just having to wake up at these intervals, it knows exactly when it needs to wake up and

357
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,690
transmit or receive data.

358
00:23:15,850 --> 00:23:16,120
Yes.

359
00:23:16,150 --> 00:23:17,410
Basically you could.

360
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:24,160
Is it true that the AP could tell that that that Iot device go to sleep and not just milliseconds,

361
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,080
but go to sleep for a long period of time?

362
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:26,650
Is that right?

363
00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:29,010
There's different ways that it can be done.

364
00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:33,790
It can be done from the access point where where the device is just listened to what the access point

365
00:23:33,790 --> 00:23:34,060
says.

366
00:23:34,060 --> 00:23:38,020
And it says, here's how long you're going to sleep for, wake up at this time.

367
00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:45,340
And then a device can also have its individual schedule and it's going to choose how long it wants to

368
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:47,980
sleep for and the apps to keep track of that as well.

369
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:54,520
But those are the two main methods, and it's really going to be dependent on how the vendors implement

370
00:23:54,520 --> 00:24:00,790
that into their into their apps and whether or not we actually see this in a lot of apps.

371
00:24:00,790 --> 00:24:03,360
So that's a lot of why there's a lot of waiting.

372
00:24:03,370 --> 00:24:06,680
We want to see what gets implemented on these access points.

373
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:11,110
Yes, I mean, just coming back to a point, this stuff is is still pre pre-release.

374
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:12,520
So does the Cisco.

375
00:24:12,550 --> 00:24:13,690
They've released this access point.

376
00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:15,400
Do you know if that supports this?

377
00:24:15,790 --> 00:24:16,990
I'm pretty sure it does.

378
00:24:16,990 --> 00:24:18,730
I'd have to look at the data sheets.

379
00:24:18,730 --> 00:24:24,430
There might be one app that doesn't, but I'm pretty sure it supports Target Wake Time.

380
00:24:24,730 --> 00:24:29,710
So, I mean, could the could the app or could the device I mean, however they negotiate go could the

381
00:24:29,710 --> 00:24:33,190
device go to sleep for like half an hour or a day or like a week or something?

382
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:34,570
Is it long periods of time?

383
00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:38,230
Yeah, very long periods of time because of these Iot devices.

384
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:38,620
Right.

385
00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:41,560
They don't need to be on often.

386
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:48,400
And so it could have its own individual target wake time schedule and it just presents that to the access

387
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:48,940
point.

388
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:55,450
And you could actually see this if you dig deep into the frame captures, you'll see that saying individual

389
00:24:55,450 --> 00:25:00,840
target, wake time and the app can either take that in or say, no, you should follow mine.

390
00:25:00,850 --> 00:25:05,440
It's really again, it just depends on how that's implemented down to the vendor.

391
00:25:05,860 --> 00:25:06,130
Yes.

392
00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:11,020
I mean, you were talking about like AC was about speed, but here X is about efficiency.

393
00:25:11,020 --> 00:25:13,000
So I'm assuming this is another type of efficiency.

394
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,240
This is like power saving, power saving efficiency.

395
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,100
So that way your Iot devices have longer battery life.

396
00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:22,660
Same thing with mobile devices and even laptops.

397
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,100
Yes.

398
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:30,460
I mean, your mobile phone won't be drained as much because the the phone basically turns off the accessory,

399
00:25:30,490 --> 00:25:31,260
the the antenna.

400
00:25:31,270 --> 00:25:31,840
Is that right?

401
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:32,440
Yeah.

402
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,410
It's not having to go.

403
00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:36,540
Kay, let me turn them on and see if I have any data waiting for me.

404
00:25:36,550 --> 00:25:41,440
It just will go according to a schedule so it doesn't have to wake up unless it needs to.

405
00:25:41,950 --> 00:25:42,280
Yes.

406
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,360
I mean, previously this thing would turn on.

407
00:25:44,380 --> 00:25:45,490
Have you got data for me?

408
00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:46,110
Turn on.

409
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:47,040
Have you got data for me?

410
00:25:47,050 --> 00:25:52,480
But you had to actually gets told, okay, I can go off for a a week and then I'll send data and receive

411
00:25:52,510 --> 00:25:53,560
data in a week's time.

412
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:54,130
Is that right?

413
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:56,560
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how it could be done.

414
00:25:57,850 --> 00:26:05,440
The the draft doesn't specifically mention hours, days or weeks, but I think that could be implemented

415
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,000
depending on how the vendor does it.

416
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:08,070
Yeah.

417
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,440
I mean, I think it's I mean, I'm just pushing you here and poking you as as I said I would do.

418
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:19,700
It's it's a lot of the stuff still has to be implemented in as we said, the only device currently that

419
00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:22,030
we could find was a Samsung S10 phone.

420
00:26:22,030 --> 00:26:29,710
So I mean, I mean, another issue, I suppose these these standards have lots of cool things that people

421
00:26:29,710 --> 00:26:35,920
could implement, but a lot of vendors, especially like Iot device vendors, won't necessarily implement

422
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:36,950
that to save on money.

423
00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:37,330
Right.

424
00:26:37,330 --> 00:26:37,540
Yeah.

425
00:26:37,540 --> 00:26:38,650
And that's another point.

426
00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:43,450
And to save on money, does that mean a wi fi six chip is too costly?

427
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:49,300
Does that mean they'll they won't do wi fi six, they'll stick to wi fi five or even four because it's

428
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:49,960
cheaper.

429
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:57,610
This is where I tell the community to engage with the vendors you use and try to get them say, Hey,

430
00:26:57,610 --> 00:27:02,980
why aren't you using wi fi six or even at least wi fi five on your on your devices?

431
00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:11,680
Because we I see a lot of devices that are just old because the manufacturer opted to go cheap on the

432
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,430
wi fi card.

433
00:27:12,790 --> 00:27:13,750
You mean that's the point.

434
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:17,440
You know, if you're buying an Iot device, most people just look at cheap done they and that's like

435
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,260
a problem with security and it's going to be a problem with wi fi as well.

436
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:21,310
Yeah.

437
00:27:21,310 --> 00:27:23,440
If you go cheap, you go cheap with wi fi.

438
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,720
And you shouldn't be complaining about speeds and and performance.

439
00:27:29,530 --> 00:27:30,460
It's a very good point.

440
00:27:30,460 --> 00:27:31,210
So.

441
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:32,740
Well, what else have I missed?

442
00:27:32,740 --> 00:27:35,520
Because, I mean, you spoke about qualm being something that I missed.

443
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:41,050
Is there anything else that's that you're excited about or like technical stuff that you want to explain

444
00:27:41,050 --> 00:27:42,190
to the wider community?

445
00:27:42,190 --> 00:27:42,760
You know, what?

446
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,730
What did I miss technically that you think we should know?

447
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:45,940
Yeah.

448
00:27:45,940 --> 00:27:50,320
I mean, I think we covered the all the big pieces of wi fi six.

449
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:58,330
I think the only thing that I, I tell people when it comes to implementing wi fi and it has nothing

450
00:27:58,330 --> 00:28:03,460
to do with wi fi six is I tell them, especially in enterprises, in higher education, different companies

451
00:28:03,460 --> 00:28:08,590
that deploy their own wireless is to make sure you plan and have a design.

452
00:28:08,590 --> 00:28:14,110
Because just because you have the latest and greatest wi fi doesn't mean it's going to work great if

453
00:28:14,110 --> 00:28:19,150
you didn't plan and design for that right for the requirements that are needed.

454
00:28:19,150 --> 00:28:24,400
And I see this all the time where people just put up access points, they think more is better and sometimes

455
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,900
it's not because of the finite resource we have with frequency.

456
00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:34,270
And I'm a big, big on saying, Hey, you should design your life.

457
00:28:34,270 --> 00:28:36,940
I know there's a lot of tools and applications to do that.

458
00:28:38,410 --> 00:28:42,580
I mean, I thought the best way to implement wi fi is to turn the volume like to the highest possible

459
00:28:42,580 --> 00:28:44,800
value, like turn the power right up.

460
00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:48,950
I'm kidding, of course, but it sounds like that's what a lot of people do.

461
00:28:48,970 --> 00:28:51,820
You know, if I shout louder, you'll understand me better.

462
00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:57,370
Well, if you put it this way, if somebody was shouting at you but they had a megaphone, right?

463
00:28:57,370 --> 00:29:00,520
And you were across the football field, you could hear that person.

464
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,060
But if you didn't have the megaphone and you were shouting back, they probably couldn't hear you.

465
00:29:04,150 --> 00:29:11,110
And so that's an example of an app with much stronger antennas and radios and transmit power.

466
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:14,440
But your mobile device does not have that same capability.

467
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:22,090
So when it tries to respond back, it might not get there because the app cannot modulate that signal

468
00:29:22,090 --> 00:29:23,760
because it's too weak of a signal.

469
00:29:23,770 --> 00:29:29,350
So that's that's why sometimes transmitting at the highest power is not necessarily the best thing,

470
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:33,880
because those devices cannot transmit at the same power level.

471
00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:35,080
It's a great analogy.

472
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:35,760
I like that.

473
00:29:35,770 --> 00:29:39,460
So what tools like what are your favorite tools?

474
00:29:39,460 --> 00:29:42,220
Because you were mentioning, you know, we need to be able to design our network better.

475
00:29:42,250 --> 00:29:42,820
Like what?

476
00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:43,840
Tools, resources?

477
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,630
I mean, can you tell us about your website?

478
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,020
Tell us a bit more about your podcast.

479
00:29:49,030 --> 00:29:51,520
You know, where can people get information from you?

480
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,690
And like you've got a consulting consulting business, you know, tell us a bit about yourself.

481
00:29:55,690 --> 00:29:59,380
And then also like tools and utilities that you that you find useful.

482
00:29:59,380 --> 00:29:59,830
Yeah.

483
00:29:59,830 --> 00:30:04,960
For for those that want to if you're technical, I'm pretty sure if you're watching this show your technical

484
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,990
and you want to learn the details, the nitty gritty details.

485
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:16,540
I have a series with my co host Francois Verges on clear dissent, net slash ax and that is all the

486
00:30:16,540 --> 00:30:20,200
8 to 11 axe episodes that we've published.

487
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,480
And if you want to learn more about wi fi, we have other wi fi specific episodes there, especially

488
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,940
when it comes to designing and troubleshooting.

489
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:30,040
So that's a good resource.

490
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:36,910
If you if you guys want to learn more, if, if you need if someone needs help designing or troubleshooting

491
00:30:36,910 --> 00:30:37,660
or configuring.

492
00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:44,560
I have my own business pack at six dot com where I focus solely on wireless and I go out to companies

493
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:51,400
and help them troubleshoot a lot of times as troubleshooting because somebody has deployed it in some

494
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,860
way and didn't do the planning and now it's just not working to to what they thought it would work.

495
00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:57,070
Right.

496
00:30:57,070 --> 00:31:01,030
They want to see a better investment in that and that equipment that they bought.

497
00:31:02,170 --> 00:31:03,940
Those are the two resources I'd go to.

498
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:06,430
And then if you want to engage with me, I am on Twitter.

499
00:31:06,430 --> 00:31:09,640
I tweet a lot, so at Role D and Eco.

500
00:31:11,230 --> 00:31:11,510
Yeah.

501
00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:15,110
I mean, so are you prepared to fly around the world and help people with their Wi-Fi networks?

502
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:18,950
Occasionally, I do find across a fly across the United States.

503
00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:21,980
Haven't haven't had anyone fly me to a different country yet.

504
00:31:21,980 --> 00:31:23,480
But I'm open to doing that.

505
00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:24,020
Yeah.

506
00:31:24,020 --> 00:31:26,360
So if you if you if you want some expert help with your wireless.

507
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:27,260
There you go.

508
00:31:28,290 --> 00:31:29,120
Well, that's fantastic.

509
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,820
I mean, I wanted to wrap up, but before I do, I wanted to ask you.

510
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:38,090
Okay, so are there any like software, utilities or devices that you can recommend or do you have that

511
00:31:38,090 --> 00:31:38,840
on your website?

512
00:31:39,530 --> 00:31:41,930
It's you'd have to find it on the episode.

513
00:31:41,930 --> 00:31:48,530
We do have an episode about tools on Clear Senate, but I'm a mac user, so I use wi fi explorer.

514
00:31:48,980 --> 00:31:51,050
There's a lite version and a paid version.

515
00:31:51,050 --> 00:31:54,350
If you're in education, you get a discount on the pro version.

516
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,470
There's design software out there.

517
00:31:58,260 --> 00:32:02,360
Anyhow, there's also I've Wave, which works on both of those.

518
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,600
Work on PC will also work on a mac.

519
00:32:06,740 --> 00:32:10,190
I used a protocol analyzer, so.

520
00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:12,830
Wireshark I'm pretty sure your audience is familiar with Wireshark.

521
00:32:12,860 --> 00:32:16,070
You can analyze wireless protocols with Wireshark.

522
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,640
I use that in combination with a tool called Air Tool.

523
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:28,760
The same guy who makes wi fi explorer that turns my macbook's radio into into a mode where it can start

524
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,300
sniffing all those frames and then I can analyze it in Wireshark.

525
00:32:33,050 --> 00:32:35,200
And then there's also spectrum analyzers.

526
00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:42,170
You could use a Cisco IP to be as a spectrum analyzer, or you could use something like meta geek.

527
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:43,910
They have a spectrum analyzer.

528
00:32:43,910 --> 00:32:47,510
They also just released the tool where you can just plug it into your iPhone.

529
00:32:47,510 --> 00:32:52,550
It's a little box and it can do some some basic spectrum analysis.

530
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:53,330
Oh, cool.

531
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:55,070
That's brilliant.

532
00:32:55,070 --> 00:32:56,810
I mean, I think we've got to wrap it up now.

533
00:32:56,810 --> 00:32:57,560
You've got to go to work.

534
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,430
I mean, thank you.

535
00:32:58,850 --> 00:32:59,420
I've kept you.

536
00:32:59,420 --> 00:33:00,650
I've kept a long time.

537
00:33:00,650 --> 00:33:01,130
So.

538
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,280
Well, I just want to say thank you so much for explaining this.

539
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,350
As I was saying offline, you know, I thought much better just to talk to an expert rather than me

540
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:10,160
try to explain this.

541
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,480
So really appreciate you taking the time, you know, to explain this to all of us.

542
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:14,870
Yeah.

543
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:16,100
Thanks for having me on the show.

544
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:21,960
And and it's good to come away from just audio and actually get on to video now.

545
00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:22,520
It's fantastic.

546
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,650
I mean, it's good to see you, you know, here on the channel.

547
00:33:24,650 --> 00:33:28,760
So hopefully I can convince you at some point again when the stuff, you know, becomes more common

548
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,980
or at some point to, you know, talk more about wireless.

549
00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:32,660
So let me put it this way to the audience.

550
00:33:32,660 --> 00:33:37,430
Anyone watching, if you want well to come back again and explain more about wi fi.

551
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:43,310
If you want him to, you know, dive deep into a topic, please put it in the comments below.

552
00:33:43,310 --> 00:33:49,640
But remember to go to his podcast and to his website, clear dissent and learn more.

553
00:33:49,820 --> 00:33:51,200
Well, again, thanks so much.

554
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,010
Yeah, thank you.

555
00:33:56,250 --> 00:34:01,070
Want to shake that ground on a break oh eight let loose.

556
00:34:01,070 --> 00:34:02,900
I'm tired of waiting.

557
00:34:02,930 --> 00:34:05,150
Got to make that move.