Go.
I'm really liking these analogies of the pie and the and the hub.
So let me try and break this down.
If you've if you've got 2.4 gigahertz, you've got five gigahertz and then maybe six gigahertz.
So let's just use 2.4 and five at the moment.
Is it correct to say that like 2.4, we have a certain number of hubs because each channel and then
in five, we've got a certain number of hubs each channel.
But if you do bonding, it's like joining multiple hubs together.
So you've got like more possible collisions if guys are overlapping on those channels.
Right.
Except that when you channel bond, that becomes one hub.
Yeah.
And then if you we just have less channels to use.
Right.
So if you've got, say, a campus environment and a large building or actually no, it's better to use
as like an apartment complex.
There's a lot of users there.
Right.
And typically in an apartment complex, wi fi is terrible.
And that's because everybody is stepping on each other's frequency on the same channels.
There's only so many channels you could use that you have to reuse those channels.
And so the more often you have to reuse that channels, the more you'll have contention.
Because now I'm on Channel 36, but so are, you know, the ten neighbours that are around me.
I could all hear their networks.
And so when we're all trying to watch Netflix at the same time on the same channel.
Everyone's got to communicate one at a time.
You got to send those those frames one at a time.
And so the more you have on a single channel, the less the smaller slice you have of that pie.
And that's what wi fi six is trying to solve with with the efficiency of how those channels are used.
Yes.
It's like breaking the channel up into smaller hubs, if you like, and putting people on smaller little
collision domains.
Right.
Yeah.
Because the transmissions are so tiny.
We're not we're not usually transmitting large amounts, a large packet size, a larger payload size.
It's usually very tiny.
It's like little get requests right to a website and that's all you really all you really need.
It's not like you're requesting a payload larger than 2000 bytes usually.
So it's usually small.
And that's why they wanted to split those channels into smaller sub channels.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I mean, the data we're sending is, say, voice over IP or small data sizes.
So it makes sense to rather than have a big channel, break it into smaller channels because everyone's
sending smaller packets anyway.
So the analogy of like stacking stuff within a truck or a big, big van or something.
Yeah, yeah.
And one of the things with wi fi six is the scheduling piece where with off DMA, when you have everyone
transmitting at the same time, that is a single transmit opportunity.
So they're all transmit the they all can tend to.
To transmit, and that's a transmit opportunity and they all send their data.
So that's like the analogy of the truck being like you send that truck off and it's got all that data
on there and then the AP receives it and it's the same way coming back.
So, I mean, I wanted to ask you about we were talking about the apartment complex.
There's two things here I wanted to ask you about this coloring thing.
So is that how does that in WiFi six, can you explain what that is firstly and how does it help?
Yeah.
So there's this concept of BCIS color and that BCIS is basic service set and a basic service set is
just another name for like your your CID, your CID on 2.4 gigahertz.
That is a basic service set.
It is a separate basic service set if you're broadcasting that same SSID on five gigahertz.
And so if you just take 2.4 gigahertz as an example, if somebody else is transmitting on channel one,
the same channel you're transmitting with WiFi six, you'd be assigned a color.
And technically there is no color like blue.
It's really just a number.
I don't know why they call it color.
It's it's it's numbers from one through 63.
And so you could be assigned color ID number one.
And your neighbor also on channel one can be ID number ten, for example.
So if your device was transmitting and it heard a transmission on Channel one in in the in the actual
if you look at the frame and one of the fields, it'll say the bsp's color.
Your device will say, K, what color is that?
That is not my best color, so I don't care.
So it'll just let it send the data and part of that technology.
Is that with bzr coloring, it'll help tell devices, hey, turn down your transmit power because you're
broadcasting way too high that it's sending the transmission like way over there to another beast that's
also in the same channel.
That's the best way I could put it right now.
And the base color is really just meant to say, that's not my business, so I'm going to transmit anyways,
but at a lower transmit power so I don't transmit on top of their transmission and ruin their signal.
So I mean, this colouring thing works because let's say you're talking next door to me and I'm talking
if I see your colour in the past I would have had to back off.
But now I don't.
Is that right?
Yeah.
It gives you a kind of a sensor and it's super technical and the documentation, but it allows you to
just transmit without waiting it just just transmit your data but at a lower transmit power.
So that way you don't cause a collision with your with the other RBS and a different colour.
But there still is a possibility of collisions.
The thing with RBS colouring is I have not ever seen that.
And in action.
So I'm very curious how that's going to play out in a high density environment like apartment complexes
or dorms.
You know, it's interesting that you say that.
I mean, I think it's important that we preface this by saying there's so few devices that support WiFi
six at the moment that a lot of what we're talking about is pretty standard standards only being ratified
at the end of 2019, is that right?
It's supposed to be at the end of 2019.
It might go into 2020.
No one has said anything yet, but I'm pretty sure it'll be ratified soon.
And have you seen this out in the wild, or was it more like in labs?
It's more in labs.
I mean, I have two WiFi six access points here, but I have no WiFi six devices.
I came this close to getting a Samsung S10, but so you tweet about that.
It doesn't help at all because it's a single device, right?
When I test this, it's going to look great to me because I'm going to get the best speeds.
I'm going to get high data rates.
I'm going to get I'm going to see what was advertised by the vendors.
But it's a whole different beast when you have to when you bring in multiple devices, like hundreds
of those, and have maybe a dorm setting and a and a apartment complex setting because that's where
that's the environment that this the Wi-Fi six is catered to high density and making that more efficient.
Yeah, you said high efficiency.
So I mean, high efficiency isn't going to work very well if you have one device, right?
There's no efficiency there.
I just have full access to that to that channel.
So.
Well, reading through some of the documentation about this, I believe there was a big change in Wi-Fi
six versus Wi-Fi five to do with 2.4 versus five.
Is that right?
It's there's not like a big change.
It's just people are saying 2.4 gigahertz might make a comeback because of the efficiencies that will
come, the 2.4 gigahertz.
That might be the case, but we still have only three non-overlapping channels to work with.
But sorry, what I was trying to get to is that in AC so five five, 2.4 gigahertz, was it supported
or wasn't it supported?
2.4 wasn't part of WiFi five.
Yeah.
So, so in other words, they're bringing that back in WiFi six, is that correct.
Yeah.
So in Wi-Fi six, it's we're going back to part of this backwards compatibility by, by supporting 2.4
gigahertz and five gigahertz, I think maybe down the road, six gigahertz might be added to that.
But we'll probably see a different, different wireless standard by then.
But with 2.4 gigahertz, we'll see all these same technologies that we've been talking about your your
air time efficiency basis coloring of ADMA all apply to 2.4 gigahertz as well.
But why did they bring back 2.4?
Is it because of the distance it can go further, that kind of thing or why?
What are your thoughts on that?
I think I think it's more about just having the available frequency, right.
Like why ditch 2.4 when it's still there?
If we have been pushing a lot of devices to five gigahertz, but why not start using 2.4 gigahertz again,
if we can still add that efficiency there to 2.4 gigahertz?
Most devices are dual band anyways, dual band meaning they support 2.4 and five gigahertz.
So it's their might as well use it right instead of just avoiding it altogether.
That's a good point.
So I mean, just to summarize for everyone's benefit, big change in well, I mean, I think it's a
big change is that in wi fi six versus the wi fi five, they've now are supporting 2.12 gigahertz channels.
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
One of the things I saw here is they talk about better latency or lower latency.
Can you expand on like what does that mean or how does it work?
Yeah, I think the latency is is.
Trying to improve latency in a higher density situation because of so many devices trying to gain access
to to wireless, we tend to see wireless slow down and say like a conference type situation where there's
so many people there all trying to get on wi fi.
It's slow.
Things aren't loading very, very quickly because of that latency.
The latency increases as latency increases, your throughput decreases.
And so with the efficiencies that WiFi six is bringing in with the the ODM, that's I think going to
lower the latency because of the multiple access that the AMA brings and having multiple devices either
transmit or receive simultaneously that way, like what we've talked about before, you're not waiting
in line to transmit, you're just able to transmit along with others on just different sub channels.
And I think that's what what's going to really improve the latency is because of that.
And I mean, another caveat to all of the stuff that I'll be talking about is, I mean, we are talking
about the joke about you trying to get or considering getting a Samsung phone.
Is this all these cool features only applied to Wi-Fi six devices, but it's not like everyone is going
to replace all their wi fi five devices like that tomorrow, are they?
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
It's going to take a long time to have this transition from WiFi five to WiFi six.
I mean, we've seen this in the previous protocols.
How long did it take to go?
From 8 to 11 and to eight or to 11?
AC But I think if we rely on some of these big vendors, you've got really big vendors now like Samsung
and Apple are the biggest to Samsung being the first to push for this.
I think we may see that transition happen faster as as people are now upgrading at faster cycles for
their for their mobile devices, maybe laptops or a different story because those are a much bigger
investment.
But none of these really are aren't going to be taken advantage of until we have all wi fi six devices
using the wireless network.
But that being said, it may be possible to take advantage of that if, say, an access point has a
radio dedicated to just wi fi six.
Yeah, because I wanted to talk about that a bit is, you know, in the gang back, I mean, I'm showing
my age here.
I remember there was this thing with 802. 11 B and how it was a major problem.
It would slow the entire access point down and use that example of the Apple TV.
So I'm assuming that you could have these older devices that slow everyone down or is it is your your
example of using a different radio going to try and solve that?
That's that's an idea that's been floated around is how to make sure your Wi-Fi six devices actually
take advantage of WiFi six is by putting them on a radio that wi fi five and below cannot use.
But if most vendors are probably just going to use the same radio.
So that's, that's where the analogy of you driving a Ferrari behind a slow car, that's what's going
to happen for this transition period because the app has to shift from wi fi, 6 to 10, wi fi five
or even below, right.
As a supports older protocols.
And we're going to see that that changed for a couple of years because it's not going to it's going
to be a while before everything is wi fi six.
So do you suspect that like if people have still got like, I mean, they're going to have like wi fi
five devices and perhaps wi fi four devices that's going to inhibit sort of this delivery of all the
cool speed and whatever of wi fi six.
Yep, exactly.
Because if an access point supports all of those protocols, right, when it shifts from wi fi six to
wi fi five or wi fi four, it's not using ODM anymore.
Oh, if the amazing like the biggest improvement to to wireless, it's not going to use that.
It's going to use regular ODM and that's just one device taking up a whole channel to transmit whatever
packet size that's trying to send.
And so that I think is where people might initially say, well, I don't see a big improvement in wi
fi six, and that's because you have to have wi fi six devices, you mean.
So in your experience, I mean, you've been doing this for a long time.
How long did it take to go?
Because you said it took a long time.
But like in how many years do you reckon it would take based on your experience?
I mean, this is obviously no one can hold you to this, but just based on like your experience, how
long did it go from end to wi fi for?
To wi fi five.
And how long do you think it's going to go to take to go to Wi-Fi?
Six, sorry.
I think it took at least three years to start seeing.
I mean, I still see eight or to 11 devices on my networks.
So it's taken a long time.
And and like at home, we can change that out pretty quickly.
But if at the office, like wherever you work your your business or the business you work at, you also
got to think about budget cycles, right?
So people probably won't be upgrading their access points that quickly if they just upgraded to 11.
AC And so you may have a wi fi six device, but the venue you're at or the business you're at just hasn't
even upgraded their apps to wi fi six yet.
And so we're going to see that same kind of transition everywhere is.
This upgrade cycle and this transition to Wi-Fi six is going to take maybe at least three years plus,
maybe five years.
So what are you recommending to your customers?
I mean, obviously, if it's new stuff, don't don't say.
But like, what would you say if someone's considering buying wi fi today?
I mean, Cisco have just released their wi fi six products.
I mean, it's the time to get wi fi six now, is that right?
It is, yeah.
I mean, it's the cost difference between wi fi, six AP and a wi fi.
Five AP is not even there's it's probably a better savings to go with wi fi six.
But let's say someone just upgraded to wi fi five apps.
I would say if you have the money go and upgraded to wi fi six when there's more devices or I say hold
off, wait for more devices, see what happens.
Or if you're at a point where you have to buy access points and you don't upgrade your access points
for another seven, five, seven years, I'd say just upgrade to wi fi six now.
I like that advice because I think it's very practical what you said that people think about.
Okay.
Like today when we were recording this in May 2019, the only client that I mean, I think you mentioned
you found another client, but the only client that I could find was a Samsung phone.
That's correct.
There's only if you want to get something off the shelf.
Samsung S10 is the only Wi-Fi six.
I had to go find an internal card from eBay and I have to open my laptop, my, my, my windows laptop
and screw that card in there.
And hopefully I have drivers that work.
Hopefully.
Yes.
I mean, it's it makes sense to upgrade access points today if you're at that point, because if you
have a long upgrade cycle, like let's say if you're if you have if you have to upgrade today, but
you're going to upgrade in three years from now, I'd say just wait.
If you can wait to upgrade to Wi-Fi six, just wait to see what happens as devices roll out.
But if you're upgrading today and your upgrade cycle is five, seven years, just upgrade to WiFi six.
So that because by that time you'll have wi fi six devices coming onto your network.
Yeah.
So I mean, so just to summarize the big, you'll only start seeing the benefits of wi fi six once you
have clients and once the older clients are phased out because the older clients will be slowing down.
Like your analogy of the Ferrari stuck behind a slow car, the old clients are slowing the new clients
down anyway.
That's brilliant, Raul.
So, I mean, I've been keeping you for an hour.
So do you have any other recommendations or, you know, information about WiFi six?
Because I've asked you a bunch of stuff, but is anything that I've missed that you want to highlight?
There's there's one thing that we didn't even talk about because it's really technical is the modulation,
right?
Yeah.
Most people don't know what modulation is used with wi fi, but that also determines the modulation
determines your your data rate, your, your how fast your, your, your throughputs are going to be.
And in wifi six they increase that to what's called 1024 quam cu am and realistically that's been very
difficult to achieve a high modulation because the high modulation gives you the higher data rate,
the higher throughput, but that's like taking a bow and arrow and trying to hit a bull's eye from across
the football field.
Right.
It's got to be that accurate.
And you've got to have a clean, wireless environment where there's not a lot of noise, not a lot of
interference.
And that's where also a lot of the speed increase may come is from 1024 quam modulation.
And that's really just taking frequency and using the amplitude and the the phase and adjusting that
to send data at a higher modulation rate.
So we should just to simplify this.
So basically when you talk about modulation rate, I can put more data in on the on the I would say
on the wire, but that's not the right analogy.
On the air.
Over the air, yeah.
Yeah.
So in a period of a second or I mean millisecond or whatever, I can put more data on because I can
modulate more data onto the air.
And if in any given timeslot.
Is that right?
That's right.
And you also have to consider that from the transmitter side, it may be modulating it a 1024 Quam But
the receiver has to modulate that signal.
So if that signal is barely readable by the client, it's not going to acknowledge that it received
it, which means the client will, the transmitter will have to resend that.
And that's that's called a retry.
And that's typically when you have more retries, you have lower throughput.
Is there in theory if you is clean.
I don't want to make a bad joke about being clean, but, I mean, like, there's not a lot of noise.
Not a lot of clients speaking.
They could go up to this 1024.
Kwame, is that right?
Yeah, I think it should be.
It may be fairly possible because again, we're taking a channel and subdividing it into smaller channels
which having to tune to a smaller channel means your your signal to noise ratio is going to be a lot
better because you're not tuning to a larger frequency or tuning to a various smaller frequency.
And so we may be possible it might be possible to to modulate and D modulate at 1024.
But hopefully in a couple weeks I should be able to test that.
Brilliant.
So I mean, just to summarize what that is, is basically more data can be sent every time cycle or
whatever you want to call it.
So modulate more data onto the air and it goes to 1024.
Quam Previously, what was it?
256 Was it or something?
Yeah.
256 Quam So it's quite a big jump and again it requires a lot of like accuracy in hitting that modulation.
So we'll see when, when more devices come out and people actually start testing it and sharing their
tests.
Whether or not we can actually hit that because it does require what's called a higher snr signal to
noise ratio.
But in theory, if it's clean, this is where we get this thing about four times or whatever I think
it was four times was quoted the speed of of wifi five.
Yeah.
I think that's where they're getting that number from, from various aspects.
Right.
Your, your eight by eight, your the of the may your your modulation scheme like they they've tested
that in the lab and and said yeah we can get four times the better speed with this efficiency rule.
I've been hearing all this talk about Iot in Internet of Things.
There's all these devices.
You've got an Alexa in your home that's listening in on you.
What you're saying, oh, no, sorry.
Helping you control your devices in your home.
You've got light bulbs that you know you can talk to.
So can you explain, you know, what is WiFi six got to do with Iot and why?
You know, what is it?
Why is it important?
Yeah, why?
Fi six introduces something called target wake time or w t and this is supposed to help devices with
improving their power requirements.
So there's going to be a lot of Iot devices that are battery powered, for example, or they don't really
need to be talking on the wireless network often.
But when they do, they need to power up there, you know, use more electronics.
And and basically they need to stay alive as long as possible on that on that battery.
And so wi fi, anything before prior to wi fi six had a different kind of power saving mechanism.
But with wi fi six, it's going to help reduce contention onto the wi fi medium and also reduce the
amount of time a client needs to be awake.
So there's going to be a schedule that the access point tells all the clients saying, Hey, here's
a schedule to wake up and transmit and receive data.
And that's pretty much all it is.
So when when the client wakes up, it can just transmit data and then go back to sleep only when it
only wakes up when it needs to.
Right?
Instead of just having to wake up at these intervals, it knows exactly when it needs to wake up and
transmit or receive data.
Yes.
Basically you could.
Is it true that the AP could tell that that that Iot device go to sleep and not just milliseconds,
but go to sleep for a long period of time?
Is that right?
There's different ways that it can be done.
It can be done from the access point where where the device is just listened to what the access point
says.
And it says, here's how long you're going to sleep for, wake up at this time.
And then a device can also have its individual schedule and it's going to choose how long it wants to
sleep for and the apps to keep track of that as well.
But those are the two main methods, and it's really going to be dependent on how the vendors implement
that into their into their apps and whether or not we actually see this in a lot of apps.
So that's a lot of why there's a lot of waiting.
We want to see what gets implemented on these access points.
Yes, I mean, just coming back to a point, this stuff is is still pre pre-release.
So does the Cisco.
They've released this access point.
Do you know if that supports this?
I'm pretty sure it does.
I'd have to look at the data sheets.
There might be one app that doesn't, but I'm pretty sure it supports Target Wake Time.
So, I mean, could the could the app or could the device I mean, however they negotiate go could the
device go to sleep for like half an hour or a day or like a week or something?
Is it long periods of time?
Yeah, very long periods of time because of these Iot devices.
Right.
They don't need to be on often.
And so it could have its own individual target wake time schedule and it just presents that to the access
point.
And you could actually see this if you dig deep into the frame captures, you'll see that saying individual
target, wake time and the app can either take that in or say, no, you should follow mine.
It's really again, it just depends on how that's implemented down to the vendor.
Yes.
I mean, you were talking about like AC was about speed, but here X is about efficiency.
So I'm assuming this is another type of efficiency.
This is like power saving, power saving efficiency.
So that way your Iot devices have longer battery life.
Same thing with mobile devices and even laptops.
Yes.
I mean, your mobile phone won't be drained as much because the the phone basically turns off the accessory,
the the antenna.
Is that right?
Yeah.
It's not having to go.
Kay, let me turn them on and see if I have any data waiting for me.
It just will go according to a schedule so it doesn't have to wake up unless it needs to.
Yes.
I mean, previously this thing would turn on.
Have you got data for me?
Turn on.
Have you got data for me?
But you had to actually gets told, okay, I can go off for a a week and then I'll send data and receive
data in a week's time.
Is that right?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how it could be done.
The the draft doesn't specifically mention hours, days or weeks, but I think that could be implemented
depending on how the vendor does it.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's I mean, I'm just pushing you here and poking you as as I said I would do.
It's it's a lot of the stuff still has to be implemented in as we said, the only device currently that
we could find was a Samsung S10 phone.
So I mean, I mean, another issue, I suppose these these standards have lots of cool things that people
could implement, but a lot of vendors, especially like Iot device vendors, won't necessarily implement
that to save on money.
Right.
Yeah.
And that's another point.
And to save on money, does that mean a wi fi six chip is too costly?
Does that mean they'll they won't do wi fi six, they'll stick to wi fi five or even four because it's
cheaper.
This is where I tell the community to engage with the vendors you use and try to get them say, Hey,
why aren't you using wi fi six or even at least wi fi five on your on your devices?
Because we I see a lot of devices that are just old because the manufacturer opted to go cheap on the
wi fi card.
You mean that's the point.
You know, if you're buying an Iot device, most people just look at cheap done they and that's like
a problem with security and it's going to be a problem with wi fi as well.
Yeah.
If you go cheap, you go cheap with wi fi.
And you shouldn't be complaining about speeds and and performance.
It's a very good point.
So.
Well, what else have I missed?
Because, I mean, you spoke about qualm being something that I missed.
Is there anything else that's that you're excited about or like technical stuff that you want to explain
to the wider community?
You know, what?
What did I miss technically that you think we should know?
Yeah.
I mean, I think we covered the all the big pieces of wi fi six.
I think the only thing that I, I tell people when it comes to implementing wi fi and it has nothing
to do with wi fi six is I tell them, especially in enterprises, in higher education, different companies
that deploy their own wireless is to make sure you plan and have a design.
Because just because you have the latest and greatest wi fi doesn't mean it's going to work great if
you didn't plan and design for that right for the requirements that are needed.
And I see this all the time where people just put up access points, they think more is better and sometimes
it's not because of the finite resource we have with frequency.
And I'm a big, big on saying, Hey, you should design your life.
I know there's a lot of tools and applications to do that.
I mean, I thought the best way to implement wi fi is to turn the volume like to the highest possible
value, like turn the power right up.
I'm kidding, of course, but it sounds like that's what a lot of people do.
You know, if I shout louder, you'll understand me better.
Well, if you put it this way, if somebody was shouting at you but they had a megaphone, right?
And you were across the football field, you could hear that person.
But if you didn't have the megaphone and you were shouting back, they probably couldn't hear you.
And so that's an example of an app with much stronger antennas and radios and transmit power.
But your mobile device does not have that same capability.
So when it tries to respond back, it might not get there because the app cannot modulate that signal
because it's too weak of a signal.
So that's that's why sometimes transmitting at the highest power is not necessarily the best thing,
because those devices cannot transmit at the same power level.
It's a great analogy.
I like that.
So what tools like what are your favorite tools?
Because you were mentioning, you know, we need to be able to design our network better.
Like what?
Tools, resources?
I mean, can you tell us about your website?
Tell us a bit more about your podcast.
You know, where can people get information from you?
And like you've got a consulting consulting business, you know, tell us a bit about yourself.
And then also like tools and utilities that you that you find useful.
Yeah.
For for those that want to if you're technical, I'm pretty sure if you're watching this show your technical
and you want to learn the details, the nitty gritty details.
I have a series with my co host Francois Verges on clear dissent, net slash ax and that is all the
8 to 11 axe episodes that we've published.
And if you want to learn more about wi fi, we have other wi fi specific episodes there, especially
when it comes to designing and troubleshooting.
So that's a good resource.
If you if you guys want to learn more, if, if you need if someone needs help designing or troubleshooting
or configuring.
I have my own business pack at six dot com where I focus solely on wireless and I go out to companies
and help them troubleshoot a lot of times as troubleshooting because somebody has deployed it in some
way and didn't do the planning and now it's just not working to to what they thought it would work.
Right.
They want to see a better investment in that and that equipment that they bought.
Those are the two resources I'd go to.
And then if you want to engage with me, I am on Twitter.
I tweet a lot, so at Role D and Eco.
Yeah.
I mean, so are you prepared to fly around the world and help people with their Wi-Fi networks?
Occasionally, I do find across a fly across the United States.
Haven't haven't had anyone fly me to a different country yet.
But I'm open to doing that.
Yeah.
So if you if you if you want some expert help with your wireless.
There you go.
Well, that's fantastic.
I mean, I wanted to wrap up, but before I do, I wanted to ask you.
Okay, so are there any like software, utilities or devices that you can recommend or do you have that
on your website?
It's you'd have to find it on the episode.
We do have an episode about tools on Clear Senate, but I'm a mac user, so I use wi fi explorer.
There's a lite version and a paid version.
If you're in education, you get a discount on the pro version.
There's design software out there.
Anyhow, there's also I've Wave, which works on both of those.
Work on PC will also work on a mac.
I used a protocol analyzer, so.
Wireshark I'm pretty sure your audience is familiar with Wireshark.
You can analyze wireless protocols with Wireshark.
I use that in combination with a tool called Air Tool.
The same guy who makes wi fi explorer that turns my macbook's radio into into a mode where it can start
sniffing all those frames and then I can analyze it in Wireshark.
And then there's also spectrum analyzers.
You could use a Cisco IP to be as a spectrum analyzer, or you could use something like meta geek.
They have a spectrum analyzer.
They also just released the tool where you can just plug it into your iPhone.
It's a little box and it can do some some basic spectrum analysis.
Oh, cool.
That's brilliant.
I mean, I think we've got to wrap it up now.
You've got to go to work.
I mean, thank you.
I've kept you.
I've kept a long time.
So.
Well, I just want to say thank you so much for explaining this.
As I was saying offline, you know, I thought much better just to talk to an expert rather than me
try to explain this.
So really appreciate you taking the time, you know, to explain this to all of us.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me on the show.
And and it's good to come away from just audio and actually get on to video now.
It's fantastic.
I mean, it's good to see you, you know, here on the channel.
So hopefully I can convince you at some point again when the stuff, you know, becomes more common
or at some point to, you know, talk more about wireless.
So let me put it this way to the audience.
Anyone watching, if you want well to come back again and explain more about wi fi.
If you want him to, you know, dive deep into a topic, please put it in the comments below.
But remember to go to his podcast and to his website, clear dissent and learn more.
Well, again, thanks so much.
Yeah, thank you.
Want to shake that ground on a break oh eight let loose.
I'm tired of waiting.
Got to make that move.