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‫So let's talk about this.

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‫This Docker arm thing normal.

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‫What's your take.

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‫I think it's a great move on both companies parts.

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‫I think it's a good move for the community in general arm and the acceleration of IO T and non ex 86

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‫chipsets especially as it goes to more of infrastructure server roles.

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‫It has been accelerating tremendously in the last I would say five years.

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‫You know the oftentimes as as technologists and hobby hobbyists and smart home hackers we we usually

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‫touch arm in the Raspberry Pi kind of world in the hobby electronics world.

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‫However one might not know that ARM processors are essentially in a lot of the hardware devices that

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‫are at the core of network infrastructure wireless infrastructure mobile devices.

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‫You know every piece of hardware in your car in your in your fridge your washing machine wherever.

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‫Right.

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‫And so this announcement kind of opens up the world of dev ops and all the advances in efficiencies

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‫that the traditional dev ops software development world has been gaining advantages in because of Docker

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‫and container containers.

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‫It opens up the the this new hardware world to that.

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‫And one of the biggest gaps as someone who has done some hardware hacking in the past has worked on

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‫hardware projects at work doing that loop of development and testing on hardware at the edge has been

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‫its pi.

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‫The biggest gap in the market right now and I think this announcement is is kind of twofold one is aimed

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‫at closing that gap making it easier to develop on those hardware platforms and then also as ARM processors

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‫are going to the server market making it.

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‫So just like Docker solves that problem for dev ops it solves that problem going from hardware to be

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‫able to write code just normal software development code in on the server space.

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‫Right.

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‫And there's some joint announcements around eight of us having a dedicated arm instances and AC two

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‫and I think there's a lot of advantages there.

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‫And I'll leave I'll leave some space for Mike to comment on it but I've some follow up there as well.

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‫You basically took it all.

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‫Jeez.

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‫I mean we're leaving you with back and reinvent Adobe was announcing the arm easy to instances and everything

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‫and you just see a dramatic price reduction there too.

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‫I admit I looked at it like how can I take advantage of these to start saving some money on my servers

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‫and everything and so now I'm making this much easier and more importantly officially supported means

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‫for building containers and everything and I'm excited to see where it goes I mean I haven't done a

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‫lot in the IOC space but I definitely see how now it's going to be much more accessible to be able to

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‫write in again open up the UPS pipelines and everything like Naren was talking about.

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‫Yeah.

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‫Yeah.

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‫And how we can we can start talking at these i o t conferences and arm conferences and I think there's

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‫gonna be an uptick honestly of around the hardware side and it's a world where I don't I don't know

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‫if there's a lot of cross in in between our industries right.

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‫We have the typical distribute application developers folks that are migrating legacy apps trying to

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‫figure out the cloud future.

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‫There's other worlds out there automotive industrial IO T Mobile even the VRA are in game gaming world

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‫and they're at various stages of this dev ops journey.

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‫And I think this just opens up that world to to the new way of doing things that the cloud world has

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‫kind of gone accustomed to Yeah.

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‫Yeah I think you know us x eighty six peoples which is essentially all the laptops.

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‫You know if you're on a laptop or a desktop machine you're watching this on an Intel processor most

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‫likely.

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‫And we sort of have the spoils of of all the features and all the great software and arm has traditionally

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‫been a place where it's because the processors were so tiny they're focused on battery and efficiency

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‫that they always they that they haven't been number one right there hasn't been the place where all

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‫of that great stuff is.

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‫But I think I think for me largely due to the smartphone decade that we've had that has really changed

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‫a lot because ALM has been around a while.

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‫They're not necessarily new.

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‫And you know in case you didn't know arm for the audience arm is arm doesn't the company doesn't actually

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‫make a processor.

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‫I had to learn this recently.

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‫They they licensed their licensing and consulting and an expertise company but they don't make the silicon

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‫themselves which is a really interesting model it's the opposite model of Intel so I was watching yesterday

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‫after the announcement from Docker I was watching and there's a YouTube video on arm from Azure it's

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‫actually from Microsoft's a few YouTube around you can probably find that video and it's one of the

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‫guys that helped build a data centers or is in charge of data centers talking about their data center

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‫designs.

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‫And the interesting position for him was it wasn't even about savings in terms of energy or whatever.

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‫For them it was a matter of vendor choice that they right now.

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‫If you think about it they're all these data centers in the world.

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‫They're running next 86 there.

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‫They basically have two vendor choices you know a M.D. and Intel and that is they're sort of the linchpin

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‫of their entire company to build to build these data centers.

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‫So for them ALM allows them to then I think Microsoft was saying they had at least three different chip

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‫manufacturers that they had partnered with to make ARM chips for their datacenter.

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‫So now they look at this as like a diversity play of being able to have all the different options in

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‫case something happens that one vendor or one set of chips is delayed or something that they can move

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‫something around.

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‫And for those of us that are on on scripting languages like P2P no J.S. Ruby Perl in those sorts of

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‫things from my point of view if you're talking about cloud infrastructure that's not French the same

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‫way on arm that it runs on intel right.

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‫Nowadays we just kind of do a docker pull on those images and those all just run in fact from my checking

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‫all the official images I looked at all have arm counterparts in fact let's just take a look at that.

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‫Let's go look at the No.1 real quick.

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‫I think what you're kind of pulling up on is that Docker has had the ability to run on ARM processors

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‫for a little while now.

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‫I think it's I think Justin was mentioning that just in-car comment is mentioning that it's been like

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‫couple of years where there have been arm based images this announcement of makes it more production

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‫ready.

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‫There's a commitment there from both sides and you know there's still some issues there.

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‫It's not a first class citizen yet.

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‫And now it is going to be and there's past the kind of hello world kind of examples you do get some

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‫gotchas.

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‫And the other part of this is in my in my view point is when you're talking about these different hardware

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‫platforms often you're also talking about chips that are communicating to other pieces of hardware that

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‫might be unique over USP cereal some other interfaces and interconnecting those into containers.

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‫So can get a little tricky these days and when you're talking about a GP use and several connections

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‫and hardware level timing and robotics more more work still needs to be done on the darker world to

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‫be able to support that.

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‫But this announcement is kind of an opening of hey we're taking this seriously and yes we're going to

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‫work.

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‫Keep working on improving how Docker runs on these platforms so it's even easier in the future to develop

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‫against your custom hardware.

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‫Yeah.

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‫I'm excited to see kind of how this folds in with orchestration everything.

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‫I mean imagine opening up a docker e environment and going to you CPE and centre I want to deploy these

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‫containers across my C device fleet or whatever so it'll be interesting to see where this evolves where

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‫this goes in the future.

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‫Yeah yeah.

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‫A lot of this works today.

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‫I mean that's what's the announcement I think someone announced you can tell like you know industry

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‫analyst analysts aren't engineers usually.

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‫And so when they're putting titles up against Tech Crunch Docker developers can now build arm containers

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‫on your desktops.

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‫That title actually would have been the same title like three years ago you could have done that three

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‫years ago.

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‫Nothing has changed.

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‫I think Dockers basically going to meet their goal is to eventually make it easier.

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‫You were saying the pass smoother from dev test to prod.

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‫But if you go into this just look at the node image for example there's this whole list of architectures

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‫where you can do Docker run node on any of these platforms we're talking old arm 32 bit ARM the latest

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‫arm V8 32 bit X 86 which is i3 86 PPC which is I don't know was using that anymore and then I think

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‫s S3 90 X is a mainframe chip.

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‫So actually funny story When Docker con Copenhagen so a year and a half ago now kind of did a little

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‫hackathon with a couple of the other captains there and I was playing around with making an alternative

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‫a swarm visualise and we had it working with both Andy 64 and arm and on the S3 96 and windows and so

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‫produced one node and that can run on four different architectures.

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‫And it was kind of fun to say you know this app will run on both arm and IBM mainframe and I've never

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‫even touched a mainframe in my life right.

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‫I work on it it's just what I mean really cool.

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‫What does it mean.

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‫Yeah yeah.

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‫This DCP will still work on a mainframe I don't know.

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‫Yeah yeah I know it's I mean that's I think one of the big goals that I always got out of Docker early

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‫on was you know not only making it easy to run any app the same way with the same commands but they're

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‫also making any architecture able to run the same thing with the same command.

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‫So the goal eventually and it's not all complete like the whole path manifest files and all these different

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‫things multi arches not all completely smooth that but we're really far I think down the road of you

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‫being able to build an app it be on multiple processor architectures at the same time it's one code

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‫base and you store it in one repo on the Internet and you pull it you pull it based on your decision

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‫so then people think well multi arch why I really care.

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‫I usually know what architecture I want to use and sort of the example that I give is like you might

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‫want something like on a no JSF you might want some of that architecture to run in the cloud.

145
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‫And up until recently if you want eight of us or Azure you had to run it on x 86 like you did not have

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‫an arm processor to run it on.

147
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‫So if you're going to test and see eye and do all that sort of stuff on your code before you shipped

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‫it out to maybe your IO T devices you had you didn't have a lot of choices for running it on raw bare

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‫metal arm stuff.

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‫Right.

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‫So it was nice to have all these images and be able to test them and then just basically change the

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‫from image to a different architecture and then your code is built into a new image that's kind of how

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‫I was talking about it but now now that we have like eight of us is a one instances.

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‫So if you weren't if you weren't aware from the Amazons conference the most recent one they NWS announced

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‫that they have they they're making their own silicon just like Microsoft and they have these A1 instances

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‫that start with A1 mediums and work their way up.

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‫And what's crazy is like right out of the box they have 10 gigabit.

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‫So sixteen dollars a month for a single AMD processor but it's got 10 gigabit networking so all I can

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‫think about is like if I've got a network bandwidth things like that's where I'm putting it is on and

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‫it's dramatically reduced in price compared to the six versions too.

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‫So yeah yeah yeah I think that's that's where a lot of that lies.

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‫I think there's going to be cost advantages.

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‫Power consumption advantages bandwidth it's also on a trend overall of you know custom silicon and custom

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‫hardware especially as we start to go into machine learning A.I..

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‫A lot of companies are going to start baking their algorithms and making their own hardware in their

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‫own silicon specialize toward very specific machine learning algorithms spaceship specific type of applications

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‫and developing against those is typically been a really big challenge to make your own compilers you

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‫have to make sure that you're developing environments of the same.

169
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‫I think these announcements are kind of the first baby steps toward opening up advances in in not just

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‫you Intel X 86 centric development across the board.

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‫Yeah yeah it's gonna it's gonna be what I mean ideally a few years from now we'll have the situation

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‫where we maybe are ready here for a lot of people but for the US normal people it's gonna be this decision

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‫of what is the let me test on a different architectures and let me see which ones the most energy efficient

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‫or better or you know cost effective for my performance that needs that I have and I'm just gonna choose

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‫that and it doesn't.

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‫It's an interesting world because for the longest time in fact one of the things I wanted to bring up

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‫about this topic was

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‫the founder of Linux Linus a couple of months ago when I think it was after the ADA U.S. announcement

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‫he basically came out and was it was gonna play a video.

180
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‫Yeah.

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‫He was really it was I thought was a very interesting discussion I was having we was basically saying

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‫just because ALM exists doesn't mean that it's going to be like this major player the bit let's all

183
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‫look back at the reason that X 86 became so successful and his argument was around everyone having this

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‫commodity hardware that was the same processor architecture type as in production so that they could

185
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‫just play locally tests locally then run it on a server somewhere and that was the real one of the big

186
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‫secrets to the success and that arm doesn't have that yet.

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‫So when I read this I think that this should be turned around now and there should be a new so much

188
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‫that needs to write a blog post that basically says Linus is right and Docker and arm together are going

189
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‫to be the bet most likely successful way we're going to solve this problem yeah.

190
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‫And I don't I don't know if it's you know the use case of like server side doesn't necessarily talk

191
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‫about power consumption or cost.

192
00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:18,910
‫You know we kind of.

193
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‫Yes to an extent.

194
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‫Commodities.

195
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:29,160
‫But once you start going away from servers and you start to interact with devices and the cloud and

196
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‫multiple architectures and GP use it that's a different story completely.

197
00:16:35,510 --> 00:16:43,550
‫Like Linus is right about a specific area which is kind of commodity software development and commodity

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‫applications.

199
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‫But the minute you start venturing off that farm that that territory it's it gets it's a little bit

200
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‫harder and it's not there yet.

201
00:16:53,660 --> 00:17:02,180
‫And so that being said though I think Almond is a lot in a lot of places and we touch it every day and

202
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‫does that mean that it's a good thing that it's hidden.

203
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‫Probably not.

204
00:17:05,570 --> 00:17:11,720
‫I mean if it's I mean for every x 86 chip how many arm chips are there you know that are running.

205
00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:12,410
‫I don't know.

206
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:15,930
‫Right I'm sure there's a multiplication there are a multiple there.

207
00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:16,540
‫Yeah.

208
00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:20,030
‫So yeah I forgot how many how many.

209
00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:29,260
‫They hadn't announced but something about the billions of how many billions of it was I and I hesitate

210
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‫to call because I pride misquote but it was something like from the start of arm as a company till the

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‫two thousand somewhere they made like 50 billion chips and then the next four years they made 50 billion

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‫chips so and then the next like three years they made 50 billion chips or something like that.

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‫And so it's essentially almost I want to say exponential but it looks like an exponential amount of

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‫chips are made.

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‫I think that's going to change anytime soon you know.

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‫And traditionally those chips have been found in hardware devices not necessarily on the server themselves

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‫but you know what's not a server these days.

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‫Right.

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‫Oh right.

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‫I mean yeah.

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‫To me it means like if you're going to if you're interested in doing something like let's say you want

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‫to make a custom you know situation on arm like maybe you're not just a node programmer but you're a

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‫little a low level programmer like traditionally you'd have to go get you know you have to go get a

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‫Raspberry Pi and then figure out how to develop an ad or you have to buy an arm laptop and then you

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‫have to deal with the limitations of that for development.

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‫So yeah.

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‫So I've got these like I don't know if you can see that I got these little development boards.

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‫I don't know.

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‫I don't think they are.

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‫Maybe they are.

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‫I'm not sure.

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‫But you know there's a full stack server on this on this little thing.

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‫It's the same thing that's in the Amazon Dash button essentially.

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‫Okay.

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‫And it's got you know it's got FTB it's got a web server.

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‫It's I mean what's not a server.

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‫You know I made my toaster eventually is going to have a server on it for no reason.

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‫I mean right.

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‫It probably already does.

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‫If you get one with like an LCD panel on it it's probably got a little arm chip just to just to power

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‫that on their website they say one hundred and thirty billion chips more.

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‫More than 130 billion.

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‫There's only seven billion people on the planet right.

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‫So more than 70 percent of the world's population are using ARM technology sensors to smartphones to

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‫supercomputers.

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‫Yeah.

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‫So I think it's really cool.

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‫I'm excited how easy it is it's almost so easy that the demos kind of like OK cool I'm running arm so

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‫you know you're on Tucker desktop.

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‫So if you're if you're just running or desktop you can run arm code right now you can just either specify

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‫the platform in your Docker run command or you can just specify the image that is arm based.

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‫And it just runs and it's using that because of QM you if you're not familiar with that

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‫cue EMU dot org it's in a processor emulator essentially.

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‫But think of it like virtualization the same way that it works the same way the virtualization does.

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‫And it just allows it's been around a while it's not a docker thing Docker just bundles it into Docker

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‫desktop by default.

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‫And that's what we've been all talking about.

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‫So if you go on what's crazy if you go into YouTube right now and you just search like Raspberry Pi

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‫Docker or armed Docker or something like that you'll find three up to five years worth of videos of

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‫people demoing how this all stuff all this stuff works.

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‫So one of that one of the challenges with this announcement yesterday is it's it's here like surprise.

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‫You've had it for five years.

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‫It just works like you don't need to wait for the next release.

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‫You don't need to wait for Dr. Khan.

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‫What what that announcement to me was really about was what we learned was like Docker e is going to

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‫come to arm right like there's going to be official doctor support for the arm instead of it just works.

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‫It'll be well you can actually call us for support with this kind of thing that you know.

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‫Yeah the developer workflow experience is going to get better hopefully we'll have easier dealing with

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‫a multiple arch images and all that stuff and news will be announced.

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‫Dr. Khan next week too I mean a whole new slew of tools and stuff coming.

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‫Yeah yeah.

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‫In fact even just if you think about it for a second just Dr. compose and of itself being able to run

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‫Ducker compose up on my machine and if I'm on macro win as a doctor desktop.

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‫What that means is I could have one of those service services running containers in there be an arm

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‫based one and then other ones that are X 86 all in the same network all talking to each other testing

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‫apps locally on different architecture types seamlessly like it's just it's kind of like what a world

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‫do we live in kind of thing.

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‫I think it's cool because it also opens up the world for things like unique kernels which have also

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‫traditionally been difficult to kind of work with but have a lot of advantages.

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‫And I'm not a unique kernel expert but this is kind of along that path to getting to some more advanced

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‫ways of communicating with hardware it's more advanced kernels more secure.

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‫Right.

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00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:23,950
‫So another thing that isn't really part of the announcement but you know your darker images come with

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‫the ability to be cryptic graphically signed and a big challenge when you're talking about hardware

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‫is cryptographic signing what's running on on hardware.

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‫And and that becomes more and more important as we start to do more and more processing at the edge.

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‫And it's also the same things that we can do today on servers on a new processor architecture that that

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‫that might not have those advantages at X 86 have from the dev ops world but now do so before we hear.

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‫I mean how often do we hear of this these camera systems got hacked and all this kind of all that stuff.

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‫Yeah.

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‫I think I think I think it happens more than we realize.

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‫We hear a lot of news and we're like yeah.

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‫But I think you know there's a lot of devices in fact.

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‫What's interesting is to see devices coming out now like the Google Home which specifically markets

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‫as not having a camera in it so that it can't be hacked so that your privacy is protected by not having

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‫a camera in your living room whatever.

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‫I just recently got a Google home and it's essentially a little tablet with a speaker built in that

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‫runs Android and it has lots of things in it.

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‫But one thing it doesn't have is a camera because of that that very we've all been trained.

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‫Now that thing with a sensor Internet access in my house is potentially hackable and you're right a

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‫docker I mean it to me it's like if the app gets hacked the OS can still replace that container much

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‫easier than you would have to like flash the firmware on a device to get rid of the hack.

303
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:02,770
‫Right.

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00:24:02,770 --> 00:24:09,310
‫So the whole remediation seems a lot easier than me assuming that they didn't break out of the container

305
00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:11,170
‫and all that obviously there's always those risks.

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‫But.